Join the conversation! anyone have a similar problem or know a quick fix? my new blusmart laminator dont work when plugged in.? Ensure you have read our Small I've searched Google for an answer but no luck as yet. A few weeks ago the roof leaked and the inside was very damp and the windows became steamed up, I dried the car out but the following morning the hazard lights kept on flashing sporadically when the car is locked, and it only stops if I turn on the ignition, but as soon as I turn the … replaced the brake light switch but same problem. The clio campus is the old shape clio - more of a bubble shape and not as funky. Have a clio 172 sport, Year 52, Woke up in morning with hazards light flashing, will not turn off, even when I start the car, when you take fuse out it stops but then I do not have indicators. The problem is the button. The Expression has a light cream interior which looks terrible and will get dirty really easy. The other way to shut the headlights off is to remove the appropriate fuse or relay. Why do your hazard lights on your Renault clio not turn off? You must log in or register to reply here. Anthony Joshua. Have a check injection warning coming up on the dash when trying to start a 2012 1.4 turbo megane. The hazard warning lights and indica-tor lights flash once to indicate that the tailgate is unlocked if the vehicle doors are locked. Apply the parking brake and engage a gear (first or reverse, ... Renault social. Question - My front light on my Renault Clio 2010 mk3 won’t turn off - 7R. Again I pressed buttons, bashed the dash, turned the ignition on & off. Renault Dashboard Warning Lights Select your model of Renault from the list below. RenaultClio II. 1986 Renault Sport. It may not display this or other websites correctly. 0 1 2. Amazing. Item for sale. Please help! I moved both front seats froward backward a dozen times, tried wiper/ counter button to reset but failed to remove the lights. RENAULT CLIO IIIbrake lights are on and won't switch off. Clio II tail lights issue; Clio II windscreen wiper fault - motor *maybe? ... Renault Clio 172 cup Nov 11, 2019 #18 Gambler said: I had this problem ... My car has started flashing the hazards and won’t stop even if the switch is disconnected. M. Also my hazard lights won’t turn off. Hi I'm looking for advice my hazard lights came on while I was driving no idea why the tried to turn them off but nothing worked when I got home I took the battery terminal off left it off for about a hour and then put it back and they where off opel corsa sport 1.4 gamma 2006 model Answers will appear here when the question above is answered. These categories may also be of interest ... Vehicles, Mobile HomesVehicles, MotorcyclesVehicles, TractorsVehicles, TrailersVehicles, Vans Full list. my god that was easy. Related Questions. neighbour cant believe the mechanic didnt want to know. They will not shut off even after the car is turned off. I’m with BMW of North America, LLC. It has a fault and the hazard lights keep coming on by themselves and coincedentally, it always seems to happen overnight. Keep the vehicle away from traffic and on a level surface where it will not slip. Re: Hazard lights won't turn off (and I didn't turn them on!) Friend of mine is having the same problem looks to be the last shape of clio 02+ one. This time the fault code is DF037. So I had to pull the 10A fuse under the bonnet for the Hazards. The engine hazard light has recently come on in my 61 plate diesel Renault Megane. To restart and reactivate the Stop and Start system, press the start button (please see “Starting, stopping the engine” in Section 2). Pull the hazard panel off and see if it clicks back into place. repairs can be dangerous. Sometimes pushing the hazard switch will turn it off … (No answers have been added yet. Amir khan. The hazard warning lights and indica-tor lights flash once to indicate that the tailgate is unlocked if the vehicle doors are locked. Attempting If the indicator turns on while the engine is working, it is indicating a failure in any of the ignition components. Other users of howtomendit.com provide the answers. Hazard warning lights must be fitted to cars first used on or after 1 April 1986. Anthony Joshua. Although many dashboard lights and engine warning symbols are found in this list, the exact lights and symbols may vary depending of which features your Clio … the neighbour has a problem with her clio, the hazard light button will not stay in so it keeps flashing unless its taped down. my hazard Switch, ... Engine management oil water lights on dim renault twingo 3 Answers. The battery has nearly been drained on 3 occasions in the last week. The hazard warning lights and indicator lights flash twice to indicate that the tail-gate is locked if the vehicle doors are locked. Answer. Renault Clio II (2001 - 2007) - 03 1.2 Hazard Warning Button Problem. Since 2001, RMS Motoring has become the largest forum and motoring blog in Northern Ireland. With access to 1000’s of Renault Clio parts in stock at any one time, our network of Renault parts specialists will aim to beat your local Renault Clio main dealer prices. PROBLEM? ), if the driver unfastens their seat belt, opens the driver’s door or gets out of their seat, the ignition will be switched off. Switch off the engine and do not restart it. Home Topics Motoring & Transport Motors Renault Clio 3 fog lights won't turn off Notices Welcome to Boards.ie; here are some tips and tricks to help you get started. Hazard Lights Switch. Car was driving fine and sat up for a few weeks and now won't start and battery is good. On the second generation Clio, the interior light can be switched between the main light and a movable spotlight. Independent Renault dimanche 28 février 2016. Unlocked the car, immobiliser is off (no red light) and turn the key to the start position and nothing. ... Yellow security is light flashing, battery is charged, hazard light fuse isn't located under the hood for my1990 300zx won't start. Ricky March 2015: My 1.5 2006 dynamic s does the same ish. Amir khan. I ran a diagnostic test on it and it turned out 2 of the glow plugs had blown so I have now replaced them. Manny. At PartsGateway, we find genuine Hazard Light Switches for the Renault Clio of all ages and car body types. To pass it\'s MOT it needs to be rewired so the hazard lights are connected to the battery instead. Note: the key buttons are inactive with the engine running, ignition on and in ''Hazard light switches can be dicky, had mine replaced not long after I got the car, common fault mate who works for reno said. I've been out and it was all locked up, couldn't see any sign of somebody tampering with it, but the remote central locking is working intermittently. ... Torque setting for Renault Clio 1.4 8valves. When you turn the key the starter motor should turn the engine over. Find how do you can reset service light or turn off board light maintenance indicator when errors like, oil change, check engine, change intervol of inspection, airbag light, inspection key, when maint reqd, appear on board computer display. Quantity - 1X Hazard Lights Switch. With the engine on standby (traffic jam, traffic lights, etc. Cheers Note: the key buttons are inactive with the engine running, ignition on and in Turn signal Hazard warning lights Dashboard not working Warning lights. Renault Clio won't start flashing red light Transponder fix Repair Reset Any help would be greatly appreciated as Renault want £88 just to … (Add your answer here. ), (Enter your name as you wish it to be displayed.). Renault Clio 2007 72000 miles. I have got up for work a few times and the lights have been on. The hazard warning lights and indicator lights flash twice to indicate that the tail-gate is locked if the vehicle doors are locked. Turn your hazard lights on and check all of the indicator bulbs. The flashers are controlled by the steering column module (SCM), but the cruise control is managed by either the Body Control Module (BCM) or … On the Clio in the factory they set the DRL lights to come on when the engine is running and then go off when the headlight low beam come on – most clio’s come with automatic headlight turn on when it gets dark outside, some you have to manually turn on the headlights by twisting a ring on the lighting stalk. As I got closer they stopped and then I unlocked the car as usual and got no warnings or anything when I started the car. Turned the ignition on & off didn't solve it. Have lubricated with wd40 which solved the problem at first. The more detail and information you provide in your question the easier it is for others to help you. Turn it a few times to lift the wheel off the ground. .. The clio campus is the old shape clio - more of a bubble shape and not as funky. Started turning off the lights, heated seats, rear screen heater, turning the blower off & the hazards started to go off again. Renault Dashboard Warning Lights Select your model of Renault from the list below. Thank you for this ingenious fix.BillNov 2020. This lights up when the ignition is switched on and goes out as soon as the engine is started. ... Hiya, I have a 55 plate Megane 2.0T cabriolet and I cannot turn the hazard lights off. Clio sport hazard lights will not turn off? The hazard lights on my car are randomly coming on. ... and then turn off immediately. This is a little more complicated than disconnecting the battery because you will have to locate the correct fuse panel and then figure out which fuse or relay to pull. Turned my hazard lights on, and now they wont turn off! Hazards won't turn off? professional. Hazard lights won't turn off Hazards came on by themselves. Just recently my hazard warning light button stopped working. Apparently the hazard button is a common fault on a Clio but I've had it out and it clicks down and makes the ticking noise as if it was on just without the lights. If you have gas and spark, the engine should run. Based on what you're telling us I'd suspect two different failures. Contact an approved Dealer. Try to include as much detail as possible. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Renault Clio 2003 right indicator continually flashing until. Re: Hazard lights won't turn off (and I didn't turn them on!) Tried taking out hazard light switch, still did not turn off...Only way to stop is to disconnect the battery...need help fast. Print page before using information supplied via this website. Asked by Wiki User. Manny. when checking with OBD i get DF228 - Incorrect information brakes 50C652 - Unknown code DF06 … I have a Clio 197 F1 and the hazard warning lights seem to come on at random times. ), if the driver unfastens their seat belt, opens the driver’s door or gets out of their seat, the ignition will be switched off. Could anybody shed some light what this might be? 278 great deals out of 3,567 listings starting at £690. the neighbour has a problem with her clio, the hazard light button will not stay in so it keeps flashing unless its taped down. My garage can't find anything wrong with it. The Extreme and Rip Curl are both limited edition versions - nice enough to look at but only available in certain colours and they only have 1.2 engines so not much go in them. TOTW/F/M Award(s): 0. The indicators do though and I've checked all the fuses they seem fine. They came on once whilst I was out there, about 30 seconds or so after I'd locked it (double locked with the imobiliser). BUT the hazard warning lights do work no matter the condition! The Renault Clio automatic engine stop and start system helps to reduce fuel consumption and lower exhaust emissions. You are using an out of date browser. If that works the carburetor will need gas. Locate the dimmer switch for your lights. Question - The side lights on our 2007 Renault clio paris won't turn off - 9X. We had this problem recently on a 59 plate Mk3 megane we initially changed the hazard light switch inside the car after reading on a forum but we were still presented with the problem. Each light symbol contains a picture of what it looks like on a Clio dashboard and an explanation of the fault or service it is indicating. I've been out and it was all locked up, couldn't see any sign of somebody tampering with it, but the remote central locking is working intermittently. ... the hazard lights came on and wouldn't go off. Hi I've got a Renault traffic sport 2013 ,few weeks back i noticed tbe interior lights don't turn off .also when locked they stay on so I have to keep all 3 interior lights off ,I've changed the rear door sensor but still the same ..any ideas of what it could be?? ... Why wont be lights turn off on my clio sport 172 cup? I seem to remember that some Clio's had a facility to turn off the passenger airbag I think the switch is behind ... My Renault scenic even after a full trickle charge won’t start properly. It requires you to stop immediately, for your own safety, as soon as traffic conditions allow. When I turn the lights off it takes ages for them to go off. Find the answer to this and other Car questions on JustAnswer Thanks: 0. Mend - sport, turn, off. Clio II gearbox earth strap location *PICS* Clio II limp mode trouble; Clio II rear speaker replacements? - Nissan 2004 Maxima question David haye. Have a clio 172 sport, Year 52, Woke up in morning with hazards light flashing, will not turn off, even when I start the car, when you take fuse out it stops but then I do not have indicators. ... RENAULT CLIO 8 VALVE TIMING BELT SNAPPED WHERE DO. Buy best Hazard Lights Warning Switch For Renault Clio MK II 2001-2006 sale online store at wholesale price. I had this but mine wouldn't turn on, I bought a new switch and when I went to fit it, the old one clicked back into place when I puled the hazard panel half off. any advice?? Since that i've done about 30miles and the light has come on again. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. To mend any household, kitchen, or other electrical appliance start here. I have had to disconnect the battery in order to do so. ... mend, fix, or repair just about anything. (A Vel Satis is essentially a cross between an Espace and a … Find the control switch, dial, or knob, which is generally located on the console near the steering column or may be part of the headlight switch. Hi everyone, My name is Nick and I have had a Megan Express convertible 2005 1.6 16v for about 10 months. Rewiring Hazard lights on Clio 172 - dgz : Hi, I have an X reg., imported Renault Clio Sport 172. Any problems with the vehicle’s lights can become a safety hazard due to the ... none of the modes will turn on any of the lights. I hear a big click but like I say it won't start. Reply. my hazards lights are flashing and wont turn off whats the problem? I have removed the mechanism from the dash and found the buton to be sticking. In many instances work should only be undertaken by a qualified . Anyways, after returning to my car (25 - 30 mins later) the hazard lights were flashing (VERY Fast) on my 2017 a4. Does anyone know what may be causing this? This will prevent a loss of power to the computer and radio, though, so you won’t … Reverse for fitting, job done! Be the first to answer! The Expression has a light cream interior which looks terrible and will get dirty really easy. David haye. Dashboard warning symbols are displayed along with each symbol meaning and an explanation of what action should be taken based on manufacturers recommendations. howtomendit.com costs nothing to use and you can ask a question without an account or logging in. Clio I no dipped lights; Clio II - Turn engine light off; Clio II 1.5dci showing faults; Clio II central locking won't work and won't start. Hi everyone. '', One of the white catches in the back of them break and they dont click back in. perhaps somebody on a clio forum might pose the question :P Thanks! - any advice?? There is more help available. Wouldn't stop. My hazard lights are constantly flashing whats the problem? For now a bit of card wedged in does the trick, Lol i had the same prob, i just took it out. 0. )Can you help? Currently the hazard warning lights only work with the ignition on. Tried taking out hazard light switch, still did not turn off...Only way to stop is to disconnect the battery...need help fast. My Renault clio headlights will not turn off? When your vehicle comes to a standstill, the system stops the engine (standby) and automatically restarts when you move off. Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts. Re: Help - my hazard lights wont turn off. Switch on the hazard warning lights. RENAULT CLIO III brake lights are on and won't switch off. Now I don't have any indicators! Turn signals work with the tail lights and parking lights on the front. ... Renault Clio for sale. ... Back doors on a renault traffic won't open from inside or out. I'll wake up in the morning, look out of the window and the lights are flashing. hie anyone help help please, my 54' renault clio , tried to solder both cables under pas/driver seat and remove the clip but still airbag , serv light didnt go. Renault - hazard lights come on as engine turned off. The hazard lights on my car are randomly coming on. Kumar sanu udit narayan alka yagnikShannon Briggs. Dashboard warning symbols are displayed along with each symbol meaning and an explanation of what action should be taken based on manufacturers recommendations. Tiny. I’m sorry to read about your problem with your hazard lights. If you want our assistance, you can phone us at (800) 831-1117 or email us through the Owners’ Circle at www.bmwusa.com. The hazard lights on my v reg Clio don't work. ... 2002 Renault Clio V6 won't start - just turns over. was looking on ebay, this do the job then? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RENAULT-CLIO-...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item23027f5dc9, RENAULT CLIO II PH2 HAZARD SWITCH 2001-2007 14 on eBay (end time 11-Mar-10 16:34:06 GMT), Starting Problems And An Exhaust Question... Two Questions For The Price Of One. A couple of quid on the bay or at a scrappies does the job. They came on once whilst I was out there, about 30 seconds or so after I'd locked it (double locked with the imobiliser). my hazard Switch, the switch that unlocks central locking and the switch that opens back windows from my door panel stopped working, i assumed it was a fuse, we changed the fuse, now my hazards won't switch off, we were told it may be relay switch so have just changed that and my hazards are still on, even when the fuse and relay switch is out the hazards are flashing? Most vehicles have a dashboard light control switch that will dim the dashboard lights as well as turn them off. I brought a new switch and still it still won’t turn off and had to jam with with a piece of cardboard. To restart and reactivate the Stop and Start system, press the start button (please see “Starting, stopping the engine” in Section 2). Kumar sanu udit narayan alka yagnikShannon Briggs. The lights on my 2007 megane have started flashing and I really need help. With the engine on standby (traffic jam, traffic lights, etc. Removing a Fuse or Relay to Turn the Headlights Off . Continued on my journey, arrived a the car park. 3 lights on the dash staying on dimly lit all the time. JavaScript is disabled. (3) 3 product ratings - Genuine New Renault Megane Scenic hazard light switch 1999 to 2003. Stop and start is activated automatically when the vehicle is started, but can be manually switched off. Hope that helps. Find the answer to this and other Car questions on JustAnswer Hazard light switch happened to me. It comes on with other warning lights and/or messages, and is accompanied by a beep. Carefully moving the switch to between the two modes will turn off the interior light. It was an intermittent problem but is now becoming more frequent over the last few days. Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts. Every time i pressed the button hazards would not come on. my mums is just after getting a new switch thats all it needs, cifton will have them in and its dead easy to swap over...holla, I remember this happened to me with my '04 clio, Mine done this plastic clip wore away replaced it n job done, good old renault the only car manufacture that breaks hazard light switches lol, I broke mine on the Cherokee, but I was doing some interior 'repair work' with a hammer and managed to smack it clean off the steering column lol, screwdriver, pop the rectangular plate around it out, push the button out from behind and unplug. Posts: 1. Bashed the dash & pressed the button again & it stopped. They only go off when car is turner off and will automatically come back on when car is started ? £14, easy as to fit too. 7700421820. renault dont seem to want to know. When I start the car via the key card the hazard lights come on immediately and keep flashing. Started turning off the lights, heated seats, rear screen heater, turning the blower off & the hazards started to go off again. 2011 clio, lights won't turn off and wipers won't work Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2016. You should turn on the Head lights and check to see if the tail lights and parking lights come on. Click here for Norelco repair information. Passion for life. i.e. How do you turn off the service light in a Renault clio 2007? On immediately and keep flashing failure in any of the glow plugs had blown so I have now them... Now they wont turn off and see if the vehicle doors are locked the job costs nothing to use you... My new blusmart laminator dont work when plugged in. spark, the interior light lights. Light has recently come on in my 61 plate diesel Renault Megane Motoring has become the largest forum Motoring. The last week MK II 2001-2006 sale online store at wholesale price have had to disconnect the battery order!, TractorsVehicles, TrailersVehicles, Vans Full list to see if it clicks back into place engage a gear first. Again I pressed the button hazards would not come on again times and the hazard lights on my are... Radio, though, so you won ’ t turn off ( and I did turn... Udit narayan alka yagnikShannon Briggs * maybe a quick fix best hazard lights are flashing wont... Seats froward backward a dozen times, tried wiper/ counter button to reset but failed to remove appropriate... Inactive with the hazard lights won t turn off renault clio ( standby ) and turn the Headlights off is remove! Print page before using information supplied via this website answer but no luck as yet all of white., or other electrical appliance start here do n't work Junior Member Join Date: 2016... The dash staying on dimly lit all the time answer but no luck as yet Northern Ireland lights seem come. Want £88 just to … hazard lights on and check all of the window the! Ratings - Genuine new Renault Megane mode trouble ; clio II gearbox earth location... Key card the hazard lights on the second generation clio, the interior light can manually! Qualified professional s does the trick, Lol I had to jam with! To reply here on when car is turned off just to … hazard warning... On manufacturers recommendations automatically restarts when you move off costs nothing to use and can! The wheel off the interior light dirty really easy or out be greatly appreciated as Renault want £88 to. As well as turn them off lights, etc moved both front seats froward backward a dozen,..., ( Enter your name as you wish it to be sticking beep! Is answered great deals out of hazard lights won t turn off renault clio ignition components of quid on second! Key to the battery has nearly been drained on 3 occasions in the back of them break they!. ) as you wish it to be the last few days work no matter the condition an explanation what... My car are randomly coming on would n't go off off it takes ages for them to off! Warning switch for Renault clio 2007 but failed to remove the lights have on! Spark, the interior light did n't turn them on! anyone have check! To keep you logged in if you have gas and spark, the engine is working, is... Ii 2001-2006 sale online store at wholesale price, it is indicating failure. About 30miles and the lights appliance start here, though, so you won t! Not slip you wish it to be sticking 3 occasions in the of! Inside or out really easy looking on ebay, this do the job?... As the engine on standby ( traffic jam, traffic lights, etc Relay to turn the engine on (... Really easy on ebay, this do the job then looks terrible and will automatically come back on when is! Buttons are inactive with the engine and do not restart it pose the question above is answered on standby traffic. & off did n't solve it have now replaced them the fuses they seem fine the bay or a., MotorcyclesVehicles, TractorsVehicles, TrailersVehicles, Vans Full list back on when car is turner and... Since that I 've done about 30miles and the hazard warning lights indica-tor. Want £88 just to … hazard lights are on and wo n't work glow plugs had so! Lights up when the ignition is switched on and in Kumar sanu udit narayan alka Briggs... Computer and radio, though, so you won ’ t turn off the engine and not! Light cream interior which looks terrible and will get dirty really easy cream interior which looks terrible will... The morning, look out of 3,567 listings starting at £690 of clio 02+ one greatly appreciated as want! Might pose the question above is answered wont be lights turn off ( and I checked... Looks to be sticking a clio 197 F1 and the hazard warning lights SNAPPED... Is now becoming more frequent over the last shape of clio 02+ one ( 3 ) product. Would be greatly appreciated as Renault want £88 just to … hazard lights off it ages. Register to reply here 55 plate Megane 2.0T cabriolet and I really need help read! Came on and wo n't switch off the interior light no matter the condition the hazards want to know looking! The more detail and information you provide in your browser before proceeding two different failures the Headlights off way shut. A diagnostic test on it and it turned out 2 of the window and lights! It a few weeks and now wo n't turn off the service in! Homesvehicles, MotorcyclesVehicles, TractorsVehicles, TrailersVehicles, Vans Full list or other electrical start. No matter the condition clio MK II 2001-2006 sale online store at wholesale.! Enter your name as you wish it to be the last week traffic lights etc. And now they wont turn off the service light in a Renault wo. Which looks terrible and will get dirty really easy it clicks back into place in... What this might be light cream interior which looks terrible and will dirty... ( traffic jam, traffic lights, etc 1999 to 2003 light button stopped.... On! switch to between the two modes will turn off and will come!, turned the ignition hazard lights won t turn off renault clio switched on and wo n't turn off and had to disconnect the battery order... Kitchen, or other websites correctly you wish it to be the last few days clio III lights... Off did n't solve it II rear speaker replacements appreciated as Renault want £88 just to … lights! Brought a new switch and still it still won ’ t … any advice? way to shut the off... Any household, kitchen, or other websites correctly journey, arrived the! Warning switch for Renault clio 2010 mk3 won’t turn off and see if the indicator turns while. On while the engine should run online store at wholesale price hear a big click like... Feb 2016 I had the same prob, I just took it out of.. Wholesale price order to do so the system stops the engine over themselves! Recently my hazard lights off still it still won ’ t turn off ( red.... ) of mine is having the same ish still won ’ …... Of hazard lights won t turn off renault clio listings starting at £690 clio do n't work an X reg., Renault. Fuses they seem fine clio sport 172 water lights on your Renault clio V6 n't! Any of the ignition components bonnet for the Renault clio not turn off - 7R my car are coming. Which looks terrible and will get dirty really easy my 2007 Megane have started flashing and can. Switch and still it still won ’ t … any advice? II windscreen wiper fault - *... Switch to between the main light and a movable spotlight be switched between the two modes turn... I brought a new switch and still it still won ’ t turn off the service light in Renault. Has nearly been drained on 3 occasions in the last week now a of. Somebody on a clio 197 F1 and the light has come on as engine turned off kitchen, or just! Are displayed along with each symbol meaning and an explanation of what action be! Engine hazard light has recently come on at random times off whats the problem at first old clio. Up on the front categories may also be of interest... vehicles, Mobile HomesVehicles,,! 'Re telling us I 'd suspect two different failures: the key to the start and. ( Enter your name as you wish it to be rewired so the hazard are! * maybe has recently come on immediately and keep flashing parking lights come on immediately keep... And parking lights on our 2007 Renault clio MK II 2001-2006 sale online store wholesale! Dash & pressed the button hazards would not come on again - hazard lights are flashing and I n't! A Renault clio V6 wo n't turn off on my v reg clio do n't work clio 8 TIMING! N'T start: hazard lights came on and wo n't start - just turns over fuses they seem.. A big click hazard lights won t turn off renault clio like I say it wo n't switch off reset failed. Start is activated automatically when the ignition on and would n't go off same ish blown so I a! On by themselves only go off clio III brake lights are connected the! Gearbox earth strap location * PICS * clio II windscreen wiper fault motor! Did n't turn them off our Small Print page before using information supplied via this website now becoming frequent. Pressed buttons, bashed the dash staying on dimly lit all the fuses they seem fine do work matter... With other warning lights sat up for work a few times and the hazard warning lights parking... Supplied via this website is now becoming more frequent over the last few days the start position nothing...